Win 15 is a relatively new horse racing tipster service which is being offered by Telegram Tips. We are told that selections come courtesy of two tipsters referred to simply and Andy and Doug.
Introduction to Win 15
By and large, I feel like most of us who are involved in betting are involved for the same simple reason. And that is the quite substantial income potential that exists. This is very important, especially in terms of understanding why today’s subject, Win 15, caught my eye. You see, there are a lot of reasons that I might look at a tipster service. The answer here though is simple, and that is more than 1,500 points of profit in 4 months of betting.
I have absolutely no qualms about the fact that this is a bloody big number. Of course, we can look at it and internalise that fact, but I feel like it is quite important that there is some context to demonstrate just how high it is. On average, Andy and Doug’s selections have made more profit per month than some of the big name tipsters out there make in a year. For me, that really brings home just what you are dealing with here.
With all of that said, this isn’t necessarily where it all ends. If it were, you could rest assured that I’d be slapping a recommendation on Win 15, making thousands of pounds a month, and all would be well. Here’s the thing. There is a lot about what Andy and Doug are doing here that need to be considered. And whilst profit is important, in the case of something like this, it isn’t necessarily the bottom line.
What Does Win 15 Offer?
With something like Win 15, there is typically a lot of ground to cover. I know this because I have looked at products that aren’t dissimilar before now. With that in mind, I am going to start with the logistical elements here, namely because they just seem to be simpler. This means that I can get that out of the way.
So, what kind of operation are Andy and Doug running here? The short answer to this is nothing that you probably won’t already be familiar with. What I mean by this is that you are getting a near daily tipster service with Win 15. As is typical, selections issued directly via email. All that you have to do is place the bet with a bookmaker.
Now there are just one or two things to break down from this. I say near daily because Andy and Doug say that they don’t typically bet on Sundays. This means that you always have one day off with Win 15. Another slight issue is the placing bets with a bookmaker.
To clarify this, I don’t mean that you’ll struggle to place the bets. There are plenty of bookies who will take a Lucky 15 bet. Unfortunately, Andy and Doug don’t seem to provide too much insight on where to get the best odds. Meanwhile, all of their proofing for Win 15 is simply to BOG. Something that won’t be available to everybody. This isn’t a deal breaker, but it’s worth keeping in mind.
Now we come on to the single most important element of Win 15, and that is the aforementioned Lucky 15 bet. I will talk about this in more detail, but effectively you are placing multiple accumulators on horses in one bet type. This allows you to theoretically minimise your risk whilst boosting your profit.
And as you would probably expect, this comes with some very big odds. Especially if it all comes together and everything lands. There isn’t necessarily an easy way of calculating the numbers, but you are looking at returns of potentially 412.9 from a single bet (although the stakes do influence this somewhat, as I will discuss a little later).
Finally, I want to talk a little bit about the volume of bets. Effectively, you are just placing one bet per day. This means that in many respects, Win 15 is one of the easier tipster services that you can find to follow. But, as is the case with so many other elements of what Andy and Doug are doing here, context is very important.
With all of that out of the way, I want to come to what I consider to be one of the single most important elements of Win 15. Of course, I have talked to some degree about the profit potential of the service however, this is based of 15 points being staked per Lucky 15 bet.
Let me be clear, in and of itself, this isn’t a problem. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it makes perfect sense. But what it also means is that whilst all of the profit and loss has looked huge, there is very much a sense of scale here. What this means is that if you looked at 1,500 points and thought “£10 a pop, £15,000 in 4 months…” Well, you might be disappointed. Unless you are willing to bet £150 per day that is.
On top of all of this, there are additional consideration as well. Namely that from what I’ve seen, there isn’t a whole lot of information on a betting bank etc. Bank management is critical with something like Win 15. You can in theory lose out on 105 points per week. So how much do you have in order to deal with that draw-down?
Andy and Doug certainly don’t seem to be interested in providing that kind of insight. That concerns me. I have looked at other services similar to Win 15 and they have lost hundreds of points in the pursuit of a full Lucky 15 coming in to push them back into profit. That isn’t to say that this Andy and Doug’s model though. With that said, I would probably still want a 250 point betting bank as a minimum.
Finally, we come to the strike rate. Now there are two different ways of looking at this really. The first one is the metric that Andy and Doug and Telegram Tips like to use in the proofing. Effectively, this boils down to a bet taking a profit. This leads to much higher strike rates. In this case, we are being told this comes in for Win 15 at 47.95%.
The other way of measuring is to look at how many full Lucky 15 bets have landed. This isn’t something that is mentioned by Andy and Doug specifically. However, a cursory glance at the results suggests that there have been just 3 or 4 of these in all of Telegram Tips proofing for Win 15.
How Does Win 15 Work?
At the centre of Win 15 is the notion of leveraging Lucky 15 bets. In order to explain how this is done, we first have to talk about what the bets are. Effectively, a Lucky 15 is broken up into 4 singles, 6 doubles, 4 trebles, and a 4 fold accumulator. 4 selections, 15 bets (hence the name). It’s all pretty straight forward.
So, do Andy and Doug leverage this? Basically, you rely on smaller wins to keep your betting bank topped up and ticking over. Then, when a big win lands, it hugely boosts your overall profit. This is something that can be seen in the proofing for Win 15 where you see wins of 412.9 points, 216.21 points, and 193.0.
Unfortunately, the other element of how Win 15 works, and undoubtedly the most important element of any tipster service, is what the selection process entails. It’s all well and good having an interesting idea, but you need to be able to pick winners. Sure, there is some argument to be made that Andy and Doug deliver on this based off the limited proofing.
But the fact of the matter is that there is no real demonstration of this knowledge. Andy and Doug don’t talk about what their selection process entails. They don’t talk about horse racing. Just about all that we are told is that the pair are “two very knowledgeable gentleman” and that they are “Professional Bettors” who are “very respected in their field of work”.
This is all very important with something like Win 15. The fact of the matter is that you are putting down a lot of money on their advice. And if I’m going to do that, I want to have at least some understanding that I am backing bets for the right reasons. I don’t believe that you can really say this with Win 15.
What is the Initial Investment?
Telegram Tips make two different subscriptions available for Win 15. The first of these has the lowest outlay and is a quarterly subscription. This is priced at £45 per quarter which honestly, seem to be pretty reasonable.
Alternatively, you can sign up for 6 months at a cost of £79. Of course, this does represent better value for money. However, you do have to pay out quite a substantial amount upfront in order to take advantage of this.
It is worth noting that there doesn’t appear to be any sort of money back guarantee in place for any of this. As such, you may end up being stuck with the service for a while if you find that it isn’t necessarily for you.
What is the Rate of Return?
Now we come to the part of Win 15 that is most important, namely, that profit and loss. And this is a bit of an interesting one. You see, all of the evidence and proofing that Telegram Tips provide point to a profit of 1,561.72 points to BOG. We are also told that that this equates to an ROI of 142.62%. Both very impressive numbers.
When you look at the actual proofing though, their totals page comes out slightly different showing 1,739.09 points of profit. And a lower ROI and Strike rate too. The actual proofing is all in line with what is claimed for Win 15 though, so this discrepancy is actually quite important in my book, although it can be explained away.But I’ll come to this later.
Conclusion for Win 15
On paper, Win 15 looks like a proper winning combination. Big profits, low risk, and really, relatively low stakes. Sure, we’d all like to back something like this to £10 per point, but even if you are at just £15 per day, you’d still be say on almost £1,750. Not bad for a single bet per day, right?
But as I started all of this out by talking about, sometimes a service is more important than just the profit and loss that you can expect to see from it. The fact of the matter is there are a lot of considerations.
Firstly, I want to talk about the lack of advice from Andy and Doug. These are supposedly professional bettors. And any professional bettor worth their salt can tell you that bank management is incredibly important. So why wouldn’t this be a feature? Other than the obvious fact that a decent betting bank for this would be expensive and put people off.
But I cannot stress enough how necessary this is when it comes to something like Win 15. Because whist there is no denying that Andy and Doug and Telegram Tips make this look low risk, that risk is actually pretty substantial. Because something like Win 15 can very quickly backfire if you hit a losing run.
This ties in with my second point in terms of the lack of advice. Specifically, in terms of how selections are found. The fact of the matter is you are putting down some pretty big bucks with Win 15. And if there is no real rhyme or reason for the selections, I can’t help but view them as a bit of a liability.
Ultimately, what does stand out to me in this regard is that Andy and Doug seem to be mostly concerned with favourites. All of the odds on the individual horses are quite low, and that somewhat concerns me actually. Because without information on the selection process, this could easily just be picked out of the Racing Post based off favourites.
With all of that out of the way, let’s talk about those differences in totals. You see, my first thought was that possibly the “Totals” page of Telegram Tips proofing is just more up to date. But there is only a few days between the two numbers. As such, an almost 200 point increase in profit would surely show a higher ROI. Right?
Well, the short answer to all of it is that Telegram Tips have got sloppy in updating their proofing with the 1,561.72 points figure going back to mid July. But it does highlight a wider problem. You see, the proofing for Win 15 also rather abruptly stops. Just a few days before the service was marketed via email.
As such, this means that all of the results should be viewed as historic and that there are no live updates. For my money, this does rather cast some doubt over the results to date as they could very easily be a result of back testing or simply cherry picked in order to create an appealing system.
Understand, I’m not saying that this categorically is the case, but it is a point to consider. Combine it with the general concerns that I have regarding some of the other missing information (especially that selection process) and the general application of Lucky 15 bets, and this isn’t something that I think that I would personally use.
With that said, I can see how some people may want to take a calculated risk on this. Would I recommend doing this? I don’t think I would. There are far too many gaps to feel confident about sinking as much into Win 15 as you would have to. But, I can see how for what is effectively £15 per month, you might want to play this on paper a bit based off those past results.